The Australian Association of Writing Programs

But I have another explanation as to why I feel so compelled to answer honestly about  my PhD progress or lack thereof. Given that we are feeling insecure at times throughtout the candidature (in my case questioning my intellectual capacity, or acdemic rigour in my writing, and at times querying whether my praxis is up to Industry standard) we become self-critical and waiting for any apparently revelation of self-perceived incompetence.

I thinkthe foundation for this crisis of conbfidence has arisen because I have been engaging in the debates surrounding the PhD by Artefact and Exegesis, with particular emphasis on quality/academic rigour argument:

1.Why is praxis still viewed with so much suspicion by current academic/pratitioners who probably qualified under more traditional PhD models?

2.Is tis scepticism a form of academic gatekeeping, and attempts to keep the reactionary and new at bay?

3. Is it a distrust of the questioners own Industry praxis or fear of being seen wanting in this area that ellicits this response to the question?

With this critical discourse permeating many academic journal articles on practice-led research, is it any wonder, as students, our first rection is one of defence?

I would love to think that the time has come when defending our praxis and the Artefact model is over; that the debate has been won. Only then can students feel free to celebrate the minor markers along the journey.

This is weird, Janene. A couple of days before you posted this comment, I had written the following in my diary.

" Friends keep asking me ‘How is the biography/PhD going?’ What they really mean is ‘Have you finished the bloody thing yet?’ And the stupid thing is that I can’t lie. I can’t just fob them off with ‘It’s going well, thanks.’I say things like ‘Well…I have decided to write the exegesis before the biography.’ Now they think I have really lost it. This exa –jesus thing. Does that mean that I have joined some fundamentalist sect like the one at Samford that they learned all about on Four Corners last week?

What I fail to appreciate is that they are not overseeing my project, they are just being polite. Their thought processes have gone like this ‘There’s Susan. What is she doing these days? That’s right, she’s left her job to write. Isn’t she writing about someone’s life? Hopefully she will give me a clue and I won’t feel so bad.’ When will I learn to distinguish between politeness and interrogation? And in ay event, why am I so keen to provide evidence to establish my guilt?"

I agree with what Coralie and Gay have said about our johnny-come-lately status within the university sector and its impacts, but, for me anyhow, the issue is more fundamental. I haven't got anything for Show and Tell. And yet I do, as Janene points out. I have conference papers and articles in journals. I think I need to do some positive affirmations such as "I am working on my PhD" and "Reading is working" and buy a "NOT GUILTY" brooch.

Dear Susan,

I think PhD students responding awkwardly (and guiltily) to what is really an innocuous inquiry is a common sydrome. I observed it happening with a few friends who did PhDs before I signed up to do one, and I remember wondering then why showing a polite interest seemed to upset them so much. But its strange that we were both pondering this issue at the same time and came to the same conclusion!

Hey - and well done on your publications!

I just had a very unfortuante wrap up to two of the most generative and intellectually stimulation series of Colloquia from my fellow PhD students, however after I presented first, the chair, a young male academic asked me why I had chosen Feminist postmodernism and wa privileging women. I though this was an innocuous 'devils' advocate'thing, just to get the things moving. After watching him for two days, he sniggered like a naughty school boy to two very 'feminine' younger women junior staff every time the dreaded F word was spoken as theorteical frame, even if it was with regard to deconstuctionism, and the French school of feminist literary analysis.

We closed with a guest speaker and plenary session tha reflected on the PhD by artefact end exegesis within the academy, and the specialised location we sit as creative artists, doing our philosophising and self-reflection within the academic framework, and how these multiple identity positions and selves are fraught and in tension. Just to demonatrate his total understanding of artist in the academy and inculcations of selfhood tied up as PhD students and artists, and add to this primarily women, his closing question directly posed the question.... why did the bulk of the papers talk about feminism.... was there nothing else?

So how about that, not even politeness or social habit, a blatant backlash attack from our new Head of Discipline that totally ruined the ambience and colleagiality of the whole two days.

Thus I feel it is more than a simple sense of the need to defend the Doctorate, and/or the Aftefact, but a need to defend intellectualy and academically the validity of a major theoretical discourse from the last 30 years. Which in turn points to the misconception of what an artist actually does and how creativity is intrinsically linked to sense of self, self worth and identity. These are the things we feel are under threat when we are questioned about our careers, not simply over-reactions. I have come away determined to find a way to conceptualise this and articulate it in my paper fro the upcoming AAWP Conference, even if it is in the non-refereed stream.

Coralie, it is so dispiriting to hear your story of the colloquia. One of the reasons I left my job as a legal academic was tiring of the constant battle to get feminist issues treated seriously. I remember from that time a research project which found that female academics across the disciplines tended to view themselves as imposters. Perhaps this is because they internalise the disrespect.

I try to deal with the situation with humour but your comments have made me reflect on that practice. Maybe it is just another form of internalising the disrespect.

I think it is great that you are going to write about the subject for AAWP. I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

warm regards Susan

Glenice

I'm just starting my PhD and find that I cannot talk about it to many of my old friends. My family are very supportive, but I find some friends quite negative. One comment was, 'If your going to be a doctor, I'm not going to let you operate on me,' and 'You're always studying. Where will that get you?' Am I being too sensitive? I'm finding that I'm keeping to myself but when I'm with fellow PhDers I'm in heaven. Carol Anne has been a life saver. Best of all, in spite of the odd doona day, I'm thoroughly enjoying the PhD journey.

I concur with the comments about this - I just find it interesting that what we are doing is so mysterious to others, they dont know how to interpret what we are saying.  I see their eyes start to glaze and then I start to stammer and hurry up and trivialise, because after all, this is such a consuming part of my life, I feel I have to explain what I'm doing before I can tell them how it's doing. But really, answering with any more than an "OK thanks" is a real conversation stopper.

I think it is akin to the old gem, "how are you?" Everyone asks, but no one really wants to know.

Judging by the recent posts, we all need a good morale lift from like minded and misunderstood students. I love Susan's bio where she says, "next time when I grow up I want to make some money" ( excuse paraphrase). Just be reassured, Susan that I haven't actullay made that transition to grown up in this life time yet. Hopefully a PhD will be a marker of this and allow me to earn money and live like a normal person for the last years  of my life. Then I will cope better with the galzed over eyes, as they all understand money and careers, if not the value of what we do.

See you in Sydney?

I was often asked 'how's your degree going?' as if it was my daughter's Tomagutchi or something. I often replied "The sex is fantastic!" and far too often the asker would say 'that's great...' then move on. Occasionally they would pick up on the fact I had just used the 's' word and query that, at which I would either make up a load of BS or actually discuss the degree.

I am applying to do a PhD next year or as soon as supervisors become available via Swinburne... unless there are other Writing PhDs out there to be had?  Cheers Perry

I knew the PhD program since 2000. I had an interview and met the group of professors at the Preventive Medicine Community Health Department and the Division of Geriatric Medicine. I chose the PhD because its program is more complete than the Masters Degree. In addition, to move with my family it is worthy a long program than a short one.

Essay | Thesis

Hi Perry, The University of Adelaide (where I'm studying) has PhD's (and Master's) by creative work which includes writing. You could email them and ask what supervisors are available there.
Ta
Jade

I'm also interested in supervisors for something related to creative work, especially writing at the University of Adelaide. I'm in a trip in Europe right now but when I'll return home I'll definitely send them an email.

-Richard Seperato JR
Hypnotize Someone Blog

Gay Lynch

Creative Writing, Flinders University

Richard, you could also consider Flinders University in Adelaide. If you are an independent worker and would  like to develop teaching and lecturing skills, Flinders offers these opportunities and can be a good choice.

 I have enjoyed the discussion about how Ph D work is perceived by the university and wider community although I haven't joined in a great deal. Am taking time now, consciously, over lunch break, because I think this forum is a terrific idea and I am taking up Jen's challenge to make it 'ours'!

I am reaching the end  (submission before March) and am pondering over how hard I have worked and whether it has all been productive. Would be interested to hear other people's opinions about some general dilemmas I had along the way.

1. I always write a lot and then pare back and polish. Others write a little and build up a picture/argument. This may be a matter of hard-wiring which I can't change. This year I spent 6 months writing a 25,000 word literature review which I am about to throw away (of course, I will draw from it). How do others work? Five years ago, my husband posted the first sentence of his first novel on the fridg door. He will not go on until that sentence is perfect. Nothing has happened since.

2. Our head of research suggests that postgrads only publish two papers during their candidature. Any more, he says, distracts from the main game. Of course, we all try to write papers that draw on research from their exegesis. I always seem to have too many ideas, CW being so connected with the world of literature and knowledge production, history etc How do others deal with this?

3. On the same track, do we view teaching outside our immediate field as an opportunity or a distraction? It may lead us somewhere interesting. Or we may end up in a glade with all the breadcrumbs eaten by birds. It may show our willingness to be good chaps, establish goodwill.

 4. Knowing that everyone has different opinions about balancing documenting/ reflecting on creative process and the overarching argument in the exegesis and novel, how do you manage it in your particular project? If only there was clear consensus. But then all the projects might turn to Spam.

Lunchbreak over. Enough pondering the imponderable.

Cheers

Gay  

Hi Gay

The way I write generally depends on what I am writing. If it is wholly creative I generally sit down and hammer it out for as long as I have steam (sometimes/often resulting in alot of unentelligablehandwriten scrawl!!) and will rework it one I have the whole picture and can add bits which will make sense later, if it is academically based I generally do alot of reading and note gathering before organising into more cohesive sections and add my own conclusions, content etc.

With regard to publishing, while I haven't done alot, generally if I have the opportunity to publish (especially in peer reviewed journals if its academic) I will take it.

Ta

Jade

Gay Lynch

Creative Writing, Flinders University

Hi Jade,

Thanks. I did mean the exegesis but early on I threw out the contemporary strand of my novel and it became a short story. You sound as if you have a methodology that works for you. I have just done another word count of my chapters and I am in the zone. Now I have to wrestle it to the ground and paginate it into one document!

Cheers

G

Your post rings so True Janene, 

Often times it doesn't matter how distant that next article or project may be, but it's the little triumphs that matter the most. It is of course an amalgamation of all these small things, be it a chapter or sending off an article as you say, that allow us to build our progress towards the main goal. 

Steven Peliari 

Author of the course on how to hypnotize someone.

Lots of meaty issues in Gay's posting earlier in January. I meant to contribute a response when I first read it, but it came in the school holidays during a week when I was seizing each available moment  to get the first draft of a story done. Isn't it amazing how productive you can be when your time is most severely rationed?

The over-write/under-write tendencies are interesting. I'm definitely someone who writes minimally and then fills in the spaces when I reread and realise that more detail is required. Getting something on the blank page takes the terror away - once that's done I can immerse myself in the joy of revising and expanding. Writing is hell; rewriting is infinitely more enjoyable!

Ah the old working styles discussion? I find I alternate depending which speedbump I hit. Sometimes I can't get the skeleton of the narrative down as I try to put in too much for one through story, and at other times I find it impossible to layer the meat on and create the exoskeleton. I guess it's all about sweat and perserverance in either case.

Margot McGovern

I feel like I'm living the working styles argument right now! Until a few months ago I'd always tried to perfect the chapter or scene I was working on before moving on to the next. However, this left me almost a year into my PhD with only four chapters of the novel drafted. I'm not all that sharp with the numbers, but I worked out that if i didn't change my writing method I would never finish. 

Since then I've barricaded myself in my office and haven't let myself leave my computer until I've reached my daily word count. The stuff I'm writing is hardly Booker prize worthy, in fact I'm pretty sure it makes air port paperbacks look like literary masterpieces (I've resisted the urge to read over most of it lest I should become possessed by The Editor), but I'm close to having a first draft finished. 

I'm really glad I've tried this new approach of getting the meat and bones of the thing done. Even if the first draft is very raw I know I've got time to work on the aesthetics and I'm finding that it makes it easier to connect each scene more closely to the larger narrative and to develop a clearer sense of who my characters are, which I was finding really difficult when I was spending a lot of time on an isolated scene.

Hi Margot

I don't want to start a round of oneupmanship (either in terms of how woefully little or how impressively much any of us write per day) but would you mind saying what you set as your daily word count and how you picked that figure - was it what you HAVE to get done (quantity/time left) or based on what you know you can do on a normal day?

In Victoria we have forgotten what that means. I did initially expect 1,000 per day on artefact but found the reading and research on exegesis, preparing conference papers, constant mind changing brought that more realistically down to 1,500 a week. So now after 2 years I have 120 typed pages of manuscript that needs a lot of work.(That's an understatement) But at least the exegesis is shaping up well despite having to wade through roughly 200 - 500 of daily crap in my journal which needs some type of formalising into themes and located into the methodology section.

Twelve months seems barely adequate time to do all this, especially when the realities of earning a living and domestic duties squeeze in and comandeer precious writing hours.

Oh for a grand plan and foresight for the coming months, I envy you Margot. See I'm not even working now... unless you all let me justify (or rationalise) this as part of my role as student editor for the month... please :-)

Gay Lynch

Creative Writing, Flinders University

Has been great to see this flurry of discussion between Janene, Susan? Cacroker, and J Wildy about producing the creative part of the Ph D. I think my original query related to the exegesis but ... I agree with Margot that once the hard thinking has been done about plotting (also the mapping, graphic organising, character profiles etc) having time alone, preferably in a domicile where nothing (not even a budgie) breathes works best. Often the first draft isn't as ghastly as one thinks and sometimes it is a good deal worse. But having something to fix is much better than paying counselling bills for writers' block. Beginning knowing that your book won't win the Booker is very enabling. The dangers of writing freefall can be that you lose control of your characters. It is quite difficult to get a vegan to choke on a piece of meat in your final chapter. Of course, these things matter far more when writing certain genres, like crime.

I sympathise with  whoever said that finding time alone can seem impossible. People who take care of a lot of other people in their lives, or who have to do a lot of paid work for all sorts of common and necessary reasons (everyone has a backstory) obviously will find it harder, the only comfort being that they are gleaning rich experiences which, when the moment is right, will become brown bread writing rather than white. Ho hum, rather than a mixed metaphor I kneaded that one to a pulp.   

All of you keep writing. Margot, go to your room! I saw you yesterday writing in a crowded room (sounds like a song). I hope you were lifting dialogue!  Seriously, sounds as if you are flying along.  Wonderful.

Gay

When will I learn to distinguish between politeness and interrogation?
And in ay event, why am I so keen to provide evidence to establish my
guilt?

regards,

Jeff - online games

It would be sufficient - and more pleasant for both parties - to
recount some recent triumph, like finishing a chapter or sending off an
article to a journal for loan modification.

thanks

Hi guys,

I've just completed an MCW and am now preparing a proposal for a PhD.

The university I am doing this at has never offered a PhD in CW before and so to an extent I am designing its general format with the supervisoers.

So I wonder if any  of you couldhelp me, by:

1.  Telling me what the format is for yours - as in 'novel + exegesis of how many words' or whatever

2. Possibly giving me a URL to your university's PhD for CW page(s) so that I can scan all of these.

My own view is that I am torn between wanting to do

a.  a novel and an exegesis (i.e. basically  a creative work and an academic paper - which would be lovely but just in a way the MCW repeated) and

b. doing some original research in terms of data gathering and analysis (relating to reader responses) and a novel + egxegesis (which is more work and so on and may be hard to design, but feels more like a PhD to me in my naivety).

Any feedback most gratefully received.

Cheers,

Rod Fee

rodfee@xtra.co.nz

Hi Rod

Last year I did a survey of australian university web sites looking for information about their policies regarding creative arts theses (including creative writing). It was background research for a co-authored paper presented at the last AAWP conference.

I have 38 pages of raw data containing summaries, quotes and urls for 28 institutions addressing these questions:

-what counts as a creative thesis

-what elements are involved

-size and proportion of the elements

Would you like me to email you excerpts from this? I think you would find that more useful than the final conference paper, because the paper's focus was how these degrees are examined.

Ooh, could you email that to me?

I know a few people who are trying to decide which program to choose and that sounds really helpful.

Hi Janene,

Rather then doing the email out thing can you link a pdf here and recommend that everybody cite you as Conference Paper, unpublished AAWP details 2008, an/or publication forthcoming with journal details. That way your intellectual property is protected and you get some citations in all our work(which helps you with ERA points and supervisor also). This is very important academic administrivia and careers can hinge on such matters.

I was very impressed with your presentation and I too wanted more in print. I had hoped that your research would be forthcoming in the TEXT journal edition that followed the Conference??  Or are you publishing elsewhere?  For all of us it contextualises our field of study within our own exegeses (or is that exegesi?)

Also for others struggling with the basic methodology issues with the Practice-Led Research PhD, let me tell you I have gathered over 200 articles across differentcreative arts disciplines and gloablly (as part of my research assistant job). The best Exegesis methodology "for dummies" is written by Dr Candy from UTS. Is hould be able to attach the pdf but as I am not editor of the month I may have to send it via Vahri... Watch this space.

Also Dr Dominique Hecq and I are currently working on several papers and a book on many such related isues, as they become publically available I'll post details here also.

Remember beginner PhDers whatever you decide now will constantly shift, change and morph throughout the journey, so what decisions seem hard and fast now, may not be that rigid a foundation to cling to. That's part of and the nature of  the exegetical journey. The fact we cannot pin down a glib answer at any given time shows that our brains ARE WORKING. We are WORKING. YOu would no more ask a immunologist PhDer if they have devloped that cure for the common cold yet, midway through candidature, yet we in CW become defensive and full of self doubt, when questioned. We are working in areas that are extremely revelatory, we open oursleves up to scrutiny of our artistic practices daily. We confront our demons and prejudices and are forced to articulate the dark corners. Is it any wonder we ALL feel under seige and constantly vigilant for criticism (academic or societal). Take heart. This is what I truly believe forums such as this can overcome. We can share a collegiality with people who have been there, done that, or are feeling exactly the ame emotions.

Welcome PhDers for 2009 from an Oldie due for completion 2009, submission early 2010.

Sorry for the delay in putting this up.

Is it just me (on a PC using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.7 and sometimes Internet Explorer 7) or do others find this web site's usability a bit frustrating? Things supposedly attached that you can't see the links to click on; pages like New groups/Reading Lists that go all weird if you click on them (that one is when using IE); comments that you can't find again when you want to reply to them...

There didn't seem to be a facility for attaching either a doc or a pdf file so I asked Jen Webb to do it, She is a sweetie so she did, and she assures me she can see the clickable link via Safari on her Mac but I can't see it at all. Neither can I see the link to Carol-Anne's documents on her new urls and pdfs page.

Anyway, this post is to let you know that the info MIGHT be available to you if you look under Jen's blog.

If you can't see it, email me at j.carey AT cqu.edu.au and I'll send it to you directly.

Sounds like I should try a Mac with Safari but am stuck with PC laptop and Mozilla to avoid horrendous security flaws with IE. Even my Uni staff links often deny me access via Mozilla. When will the 'tech. guys' realise we are not all indebted to Bill Gates' Microsoft.

As editor for the month of February I had similar pdf attachment issues, so relied on intext URLS. The attach commands look so user-friendly and the upload time, reasonable but to navigate to post and forum on subsequent occasions.... hmmm, now there is a dilemma.

This site should have had bugs ironed out during beta testing but I guess we all just didn't push the envelope back then as we had no idea how we would actually use the site.

It must 'tick' Jenn off to have t attend to such basic and mundane tasks. To my Swinburne colleagues.... notice my tact and choice of colloquialism, aren't I blessed with Irish goodwill tonight?

Janene, hope you can see my page link under Active Forum Topics on menu... is this another Thanks Jenn? The Candy UTS stuff is attache. Now to find your work Janene...

It's almost impossible to write code these days that will work well on IE6, IE7, IE8, FF2, FF3, Safari, Safari4 and Chrome. I'm surprised Facebook were able to do it with their FBML

-- Submitted from Mobile Facebook

It's a lot of work but when you're finished and you look back you see it was all worth it.

Cubic Disturbance

I have enjoyed the discussion about how Ph D work is perceived by the university and wider community although I haven't joined in a great deal. Am taking time now, consciously, over lunch break, because I think this forum is a terrific idea and I am taking up Jen's challenge to make it 'ours Thesis Writing